A rich vein to explore! What you have written seems multi-faceted to me, but some of the 'threads' appear to somewhat entangled.
- Yes, I have 'authority issues' from childhood. Yes, these can probably lead me to react to certain stimuli in ways that I cannot yet see. Yes, it's worth me being aware of these as much as possible and discounting for them if I can.
- In fact, I have a problem with the idea of (perceived) authority (with the meaning that someone else assumes the right to tell me what to do, rather the sense that they have expertise/knowledge which makes them someone worth listening to). Why wouldn't I? Whilst I acknowledge the reality that some people will seek to bully, our society is built on the idea that 'all are equal under the law' (even if that isn't exactly working perfectly...). Agreeing to allow certain people certain roles where they can instruct others in order to make life/society work better is a different thing. As is any agreed authority coming with transparency and accountability.
- I agree that there are people who deliver a "barrage of this so-called 'proof'" with the demand that others adopt their views and that this may well often come from their childhood authority issues...and that doesn't mean that was they say is necessarily incorrect. ("You may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they're not necessarily out to get you"!!). To be clear, I don't enjoy it when others do this either.
- I see a risk that you may be doing a similar thing with those who react to authority in this way to what you are accusing them of. You seem less to be challenging their thinking, as reacting to their (potential) authority-response and then negating any possibility of value in what they are saying. You seem to be pushing us to adopt your views (they seem to come with considerable 'charge').
- For example, when you discount the possibility that Schwab is as bad a guy as such people believe, you cite that he is open about his goals. Why does this preclude the possibility that he is conspiring with others to achieve those goals? I can think of many reasons why someone might publicise their intentions (maybe they get off on it, maybe it furthers their power trip, it is in line with requirements of certain dark/occult practices, they can 'control the narrative' more easily and use partial truths to hide deeper ones, by doing so they can head off some of the 'heat' that would likely arise as people put two and two together and started pointing fingers etc etc).
All that said, the dynamic that you raise around where I avoid facing what is behind the 'authority issues' is relevant and interesting to me. At the start of the 'covid' charade, I was prone to wanting to persuade others and have them 'wake up' as a result of the fears from what I was perceiving and the future-projections that were alive for me. The fear of malign domination was very high and I was definitely struggling to face this. It is not helped by the fact that most of what I foresaw turned out to be broadly accurate - and that doesn't justify the strident pressurising of others or trying to 'wake them up'.
You have spoken about your own journey with authority issues. I am curious what drives your (imo strong) reaction to others who have the same?
Whilst I'm on the subject, another thing that bugs me about conspiracy theorists is that nearly all the coherent theories surrounding Western elite cabals track back to just two books by one guy. Tragedy & Hope and The Anglo-American Establishment by Carroll Quigley, a non conspiratorial US historian, has been source material for Icke plus the thousands who emulate him. Everyone plagiarizes one source and yet no one discusses the actual one source. This bugs me too.
Cool - I wasn't aware of those books or of them being foundational amongst conspiracy hypotheses (as I believe they should be called until demonstrated to have substance!). I will take a look.
Well, conspiracies theories are usually found in places where it's actually really hard to know who's really doing what and who if anyone is in control
I actually don't consider myself to be so anti conspiracy theories. Traveling a fair bit the last few years, and meeting a lot of new people, they just seem to be a part of my life these days. Lebanon especially, I think you'd struggle to have much conversation with anyone for more than 2 mins before the latest conspiracy comes up!
But what I find triggers me are people who I seem to be really charged with emotion and determined that I believe their theory. I feel like I don't want to believe something that doesn't strike me as likely, so I push back. I probably could handle some situations better but nothing so terrible has yet happened, such that I feel I need to change my behaviour.
If I'm honest, I quite enjoy pushing back at what I consider to be BS.
I get you about people wanting to push their theories onto me (and, especially, using their emotion as some sort of justification - that's one that I particularly don't enjoy).
Hi Dev
A rich vein to explore! What you have written seems multi-faceted to me, but some of the 'threads' appear to somewhat entangled.
- Yes, I have 'authority issues' from childhood. Yes, these can probably lead me to react to certain stimuli in ways that I cannot yet see. Yes, it's worth me being aware of these as much as possible and discounting for them if I can.
- In fact, I have a problem with the idea of (perceived) authority (with the meaning that someone else assumes the right to tell me what to do, rather the sense that they have expertise/knowledge which makes them someone worth listening to). Why wouldn't I? Whilst I acknowledge the reality that some people will seek to bully, our society is built on the idea that 'all are equal under the law' (even if that isn't exactly working perfectly...). Agreeing to allow certain people certain roles where they can instruct others in order to make life/society work better is a different thing. As is any agreed authority coming with transparency and accountability.
- I agree that there are people who deliver a "barrage of this so-called 'proof'" with the demand that others adopt their views and that this may well often come from their childhood authority issues...and that doesn't mean that was they say is necessarily incorrect. ("You may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they're not necessarily out to get you"!!). To be clear, I don't enjoy it when others do this either.
- I see a risk that you may be doing a similar thing with those who react to authority in this way to what you are accusing them of. You seem less to be challenging their thinking, as reacting to their (potential) authority-response and then negating any possibility of value in what they are saying. You seem to be pushing us to adopt your views (they seem to come with considerable 'charge').
- For example, when you discount the possibility that Schwab is as bad a guy as such people believe, you cite that he is open about his goals. Why does this preclude the possibility that he is conspiring with others to achieve those goals? I can think of many reasons why someone might publicise their intentions (maybe they get off on it, maybe it furthers their power trip, it is in line with requirements of certain dark/occult practices, they can 'control the narrative' more easily and use partial truths to hide deeper ones, by doing so they can head off some of the 'heat' that would likely arise as people put two and two together and started pointing fingers etc etc).
All that said, the dynamic that you raise around where I avoid facing what is behind the 'authority issues' is relevant and interesting to me. At the start of the 'covid' charade, I was prone to wanting to persuade others and have them 'wake up' as a result of the fears from what I was perceiving and the future-projections that were alive for me. The fear of malign domination was very high and I was definitely struggling to face this. It is not helped by the fact that most of what I foresaw turned out to be broadly accurate - and that doesn't justify the strident pressurising of others or trying to 'wake them up'.
You have spoken about your own journey with authority issues. I am curious what drives your (imo strong) reaction to others who have the same?
With love, mark
Whilst I'm on the subject, another thing that bugs me about conspiracy theorists is that nearly all the coherent theories surrounding Western elite cabals track back to just two books by one guy. Tragedy & Hope and The Anglo-American Establishment by Carroll Quigley, a non conspiratorial US historian, has been source material for Icke plus the thousands who emulate him. Everyone plagiarizes one source and yet no one discusses the actual one source. This bugs me too.
Cool - I wasn't aware of those books or of them being foundational amongst conspiracy hypotheses (as I believe they should be called until demonstrated to have substance!). I will take a look.
Well, conspiracies theories are usually found in places where it's actually really hard to know who's really doing what and who if anyone is in control
Indeed - trying to get reliable data is bad enough. Endeavouring to work out (or think we know) what others' intentions are is problematic at best!
I actually don't consider myself to be so anti conspiracy theories. Traveling a fair bit the last few years, and meeting a lot of new people, they just seem to be a part of my life these days. Lebanon especially, I think you'd struggle to have much conversation with anyone for more than 2 mins before the latest conspiracy comes up!
But what I find triggers me are people who I seem to be really charged with emotion and determined that I believe their theory. I feel like I don't want to believe something that doesn't strike me as likely, so I push back. I probably could handle some situations better but nothing so terrible has yet happened, such that I feel I need to change my behaviour.
If I'm honest, I quite enjoy pushing back at what I consider to be BS.
I appreciate you responding, Dev.
I get you about people wanting to push their theories onto me (and, especially, using their emotion as some sort of justification - that's one that I particularly don't enjoy).
Yeah, pushing back can feel satisfying!