> How could a democracy like ours have become subverted so quickly? Easy, I say. Actually, the Empire never did end
While I agree with you that feudalism and empire never ended, one doesn’t need any specific empire to have remained to conclude that we never had a democracy and only had demotism.
> Too much discussion and in-fighting and we risk becoming overwhelmed industrially or militarily.
This is somewhat reductive. After all, your post existing demonstrates dissident positions being permitted. What they’re encouraging is a controlled accelerated infighting, not an enforced singular vision. Something to remember as we get caught up in these matters
> Dissidents can no longer be tolerated and need to be thoroughly marginalised.
It’s less that dissidents aren’t tolerated, and more that dissidents lives are made deeply uncomfortable. Which is how power has always treated dissidents, and how could one expect otherwise? The illusion is that everyone we were told was a dissident was in fact sponsored.
> Another huge issue for the West is that, over the last decades, most citizens have turned against things like war or working hard for industrial capitalism
This assumes some sort of organic problem emerging, rather than a controlled transition, like an enclosure of society into a new form of the feudalism you rightly described.
> We all want to find ourselves, not work for the man, nine to five. I’m the same. In short, we have become useless to our masters. What empire needs citizens who will neither fight nor work for it?
This seems to mistake symptoms for causes. We have been made redundant, our labor is not wanted, less than it is not utilizable due to our lack of motivation
Thanks. I agree that getting infighting going is a standard means for maintaining social control. Along with controlling the opposition, as in XR or Just Stop Oil.
But I think the West has been severely blindsided recently. It looked 5 years ago like global free market neoliberalism was a done deal. They/we took our eye off the ball. Suddenly the Chinese and Russians are on us and this is what's causing the current upheaval. I explore this Idea here...
Thank you for the reply. I enjoyed that abandon ship essay, but have contentions I’ll address below:
> The very philosophical cornerstones on which Western culture was founded are breaking apart. For the simple reason that they never were sound. The sneaky, geopolitical tricks that the British in particular developed over the centuries are no longer working.
It seems to me that western political actors simply stopped applying the quite potent coercive measures available to them. It was clearly not a mistake or accident on their part, but an intentional and quite rapid shift in methods.
> We have had our season in the sun. We have done our bit in creating change and development in the world. We have supported the emergence of new levels of consciousness. But now it’s time to bow out gracefully and hopefully let go of control without too much drama.
This feels like something Harari would say. It's fine to argue for a teleology, but it seems too convenient to say that western virtues are ‘outdated’. Chinese consciousness is far older. Power has indeed shifted, but the reasons may very well be more connected to geopolitical ends of power as such than any given philosophy growing stale. (Although most philosophies are stale!)
> What’s missing for me in the West is any sense of actual caring... We can’t occupy the moral high ground and pressurize other countries to die for our causes. It won’t wash over time. And we won’t be able to wash out the blood either. We can’t talk world peace, but then say only on our terms... But that doesn’t mean that only Westerners can make decisions.
Hypocrisy is quite simply the ‘language of power’. Whitewashing one's violence, and coercing others into submission. It will never not be this way. Frankly, if anything, what makes the west’s hypocrisy so intolerable is that it applies a ‘language of caring’ far too much, in a context in which is cannot apply without unilateral disarmament. The closest a regime can come to speaking about honestly caring about its citizens is Singapore. Because it’s the most open and honest about its intention to coerce, it can afford to honestly have a vision for societal health—strict as it may be.
> But I think the West has been severely blindsided recently. It looked 5 years ago like global free market neoliberalism was a done deal. They/we took our eye off the ball. Suddenly the Chinese and Russians are on us and this is what's causing the current upheaval.
While I do agree the Russians and the Chinese are in the ascendant, I'm more partial to the view that the West is undergoing a quite intentional controlled demolition, less than that it's been blindsided.
The sheer absurdity of the events occurring is hardly accidental, but more of an ongoing humiliation ritual. Moreover, the same transitions are occurring in lockstep—sometimes even more harshly—in Russia and China, who are said to have outmaneuvered the west. I think our shared idea that the empire never died aligns better with the conclusion of a forced transition, and a global one at that, than that the west was blindsided.
By the way, if you do reply, please @ tag me in as I didn't see your last reply.
@ELISCHIFF yeah, we will see how it all develops, for sure. And I think the elephant in the room is widespread decentralisation, which advancing tech offers. In the background, I think all the planet's main power structures are fighting because the spectre of widespread decentralisation is just sitting there. They are looking for ways to control it!
Then you have a basic fissure within the West, with the EU and the Dems and some of the UK establishment on one side, and the UK right and US dollar hegemons on the other.
On top of that you have Ukraine, which for me indicates the sheer level of delusion that the West had fallen into. It's no secret that Washington and Whitehall were celebrating Putin's invasion, barely capable of containing their excitement that the Russians had finally fallen into the trap NATO had been baiting for them for since 2008. Like apparently no one in the whole of the Western powerbase had taken into account the gradual shift in the relative capacity to project military power in the years from 08 to 22. In 08, NATO would have walked it. But by 22, the trap was actually the other way around. Meaning Putin could invade, win and claim he was just protecting himself from NATO aggression.
Even me, a simple therapist living in bloody Turkey, could see that the Ukrainians were clearly in severe trouble in this one. It was plain apparent even to the Ukrainians who were trying to negotiate a settlement with Erd as the broker. But the West media machine girded its loins and went into overdrive, not realising that it doesn't matter if 800m Westerners believe something. It makes no difference on the ground. Only with the Vilnius NATO summit earlier this month did I see any evidence that the Americans were finally getting a grip and starting to come to terms with reality.
Working for years in the field of body-based therapy and Reichian Character Structure gives me insights into how much power to create change the semantic mind actually has, as opposed to how much power it thinks it has.
> And I think the elephant in the room is widespread decentralisation, which advancing tech offers... They are looking for ways to control it!
Very true, agreed.
Re: Ukraine, I haven't kept abreast of it all, but it does look to be a hotbed of corruption. I trust your analysis.
> not realising that it doesn't matter if 800m Westerners believe something
Made me laugh
> Working for years in the field of body-based therapy and Reichian Character Structure gives me insights into how much power to create change the semantic mind actually has, as opposed to how much power it thinks it has.
This is true, and it's a very insightful thing on a personal level. But I think the premise that the west is in controlled demolition takes away from the theory that it's incompetence/hubris that's causing these developments.
Yeah. Though I figure the Empire is held in place, on a deeper level, because it represents the most likely option to get humans to wake up, instead of just lazing around seeking comfort.
I put this out recently to Richard Poe. He banned me from following him!
I don't know Richard Poe. Sounds like I am blessed by that!
I don't know what you mean by 'the Empire is held in place, on a deeper level, because it represents the most likely option to get humans to wake up'
Humans are not asleep.
We are controlled via laws, education and religion, all of which originate in Rome.
The modern descendants of the Roman Senate are now known as the Black Nobility and if ANYONE is 'just lazing around seeking comfort' it has been THEM since they established Venice in the mosquito infested swamps of northern Italy.
It would appear that you did not read the articles I linked above before replying to me. Had you done so, we might be having a different conversation.
I skimmed one of the articles you wrote. It didn't look to me like it would pass the 5 point sniff test I put out in the article on the Illuminati I linked you to.
I maintain that there is a highly complex relationship between humans and the means through which we have evolved from other primates. We absolutely need huge ongoing adaptive pressure to transcend our origins and if the black nobility provide that, well, it's not great but how else to do it?
I've been 20 years in the heavy end of the therapy scene. Humans will only face themselves under extreme internal and external pressure.
Eek! You believe we evolved from primates? OK. That is quite an assumption with no evidence to support it.... where are the skulls showing the long slow changes which would have been necessary?
You further assume that we need 'huge ongoing adaptive pressure to transcend our origins' - WHAT?? We have (as a species) adapted to survive through multiple climate changes over many millions of years. Some of us are still driven to re-develop our lost skills, such as telepathy and manifestation.
The Black Nobility limits our development and punishes anyone who displayed the lost skills - just as it always did from the Roman Empire onwards. Witch-burnings, Inquisitions etc.
Your form of 'therapy' sounds brutal to me, a retired Barefoot Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine.
If you feel a need for 'extreme internal and external pressure' to seed a change in a client. Then, man, you were doing it all wrong for those 20 years!
PS
Your 'sniff test' is pants! lmfao!
It leads you to dismiss facts that do not fit YOUR paradigm rather than act as a way to detect irrational theorising. I give it zero credibility, sorry.
Well, I'd actually agree that we were more likely seeded from apes, by external means, than our frontal lobes developed just through adaptive pressure. That's seems more likely to me.
But you still need a lot of pressure to get us to where we are now. A few climate changes ain't gonna cut it.
That's why I say you have to give the dragon of Rev 12 his due.
And a bit of dialoguing seems to have woken you up a little. Maybe you'll now move on from rehashing Carroll Quigley like every other tinfoil hat wearing authority tripper in town! Time in the panopticon can actually be insightful.
Yes! I have been musing just recently that accepting we aren't going to get and can't expect any protection, justice, care, or reward from the system is in a way, ironically, relaxing and allows us to navigate it better.
Also, Frances Leader on substack writes about how the Roman Empire literally did not end - some very interesting and thought provoking reads..
Thanks for inviting me to comment here. As you can see this particular person is deceptive and controlling. He created this post (and others he has written) purely to TRAP those of us who are willing to share our work.
I try to treat all those who comment the same. Maybe I fail sometimes but I try. If you resort to insults with me, I usually push back at what I consider to be a similar level. Or just ignore if I think it's not worth it.
The way I see it, if someone truly stands in a narrative then they can easily withstand a bit of pounding. If the narrative is merely a vehicle for self-avoidance, then in my experience, it won't stand up for long under pressure. All the submerged feelings the narrative is holding down start to surface. The trick, I think, is not relying on narratives to feel okay, not needing someone else to believe what you think. I am still on this journey.
And TBH you are actually proving to me the point I originally made - that humans need colossal ongoing adaptive pressure to develop. We need massive challenge, otherwise we will simply take the path of least resistance. Be that eating doritos rather than feeling. Or trying to convince others that one's pet theory of how-the-world-is is actually correct, rather than deal with submerged issues around authority and hierarchies.
Like I'm not denying your black nobility exist. I'm saying they're needed.
lol - we can all read back and see how you operate. You insulted me by merely 'skimming' one of my articles and then proceeding to assume you knew my sources. I have never read Quigley, btw.
Then you set about assuming that your 'therapy' could help me away from facts which you dismiss as 'conspiracy theories'.
You are the one who should easily withstand a bit of pounding.... but you can't.
I wasn't using "skimming" as an insult. Sorry if it came off this way. Just that there's a shit ton of conspiracy stuff out there and most is delusional imo. I mean, it is the same tired old narrative devices over and over (and over) again. And so I just can't spend my days reading this stuff. If you don't visibly demonstrate objectivity early on, if you're just using confirmation bias, retrofitting evidence, or selecting for single-agent causation over other explanations, then I'm just not going to bother.
Machiavelli told the whole story. Nothing has changed in 500 years. We still have the same types of rulers, performing the same tricks that Mach described. Occasionally we get a sane ruler, and we can be happy until the sane ruler is killed by the normal ones.
I’ll respond to a few points:
> How could a democracy like ours have become subverted so quickly? Easy, I say. Actually, the Empire never did end
While I agree with you that feudalism and empire never ended, one doesn’t need any specific empire to have remained to conclude that we never had a democracy and only had demotism.
> Too much discussion and in-fighting and we risk becoming overwhelmed industrially or militarily.
This is somewhat reductive. After all, your post existing demonstrates dissident positions being permitted. What they’re encouraging is a controlled accelerated infighting, not an enforced singular vision. Something to remember as we get caught up in these matters
> Dissidents can no longer be tolerated and need to be thoroughly marginalised.
It’s less that dissidents aren’t tolerated, and more that dissidents lives are made deeply uncomfortable. Which is how power has always treated dissidents, and how could one expect otherwise? The illusion is that everyone we were told was a dissident was in fact sponsored.
> Another huge issue for the West is that, over the last decades, most citizens have turned against things like war or working hard for industrial capitalism
This assumes some sort of organic problem emerging, rather than a controlled transition, like an enclosure of society into a new form of the feudalism you rightly described.
> We all want to find ourselves, not work for the man, nine to five. I’m the same. In short, we have become useless to our masters. What empire needs citizens who will neither fight nor work for it?
This seems to mistake symptoms for causes. We have been made redundant, our labor is not wanted, less than it is not utilizable due to our lack of motivation
Overall, great conclusion.
Thanks. I agree that getting infighting going is a standard means for maintaining social control. Along with controlling the opposition, as in XR or Just Stop Oil.
But I think the West has been severely blindsided recently. It looked 5 years ago like global free market neoliberalism was a done deal. They/we took our eye off the ball. Suddenly the Chinese and Russians are on us and this is what's causing the current upheaval. I explore this Idea here...
https://devaraj2.substack.com/p/abandon-ship
Thank you for the reply. I enjoyed that abandon ship essay, but have contentions I’ll address below:
> The very philosophical cornerstones on which Western culture was founded are breaking apart. For the simple reason that they never were sound. The sneaky, geopolitical tricks that the British in particular developed over the centuries are no longer working.
It seems to me that western political actors simply stopped applying the quite potent coercive measures available to them. It was clearly not a mistake or accident on their part, but an intentional and quite rapid shift in methods.
> We have had our season in the sun. We have done our bit in creating change and development in the world. We have supported the emergence of new levels of consciousness. But now it’s time to bow out gracefully and hopefully let go of control without too much drama.
This feels like something Harari would say. It's fine to argue for a teleology, but it seems too convenient to say that western virtues are ‘outdated’. Chinese consciousness is far older. Power has indeed shifted, but the reasons may very well be more connected to geopolitical ends of power as such than any given philosophy growing stale. (Although most philosophies are stale!)
> What’s missing for me in the West is any sense of actual caring... We can’t occupy the moral high ground and pressurize other countries to die for our causes. It won’t wash over time. And we won’t be able to wash out the blood either. We can’t talk world peace, but then say only on our terms... But that doesn’t mean that only Westerners can make decisions.
Hypocrisy is quite simply the ‘language of power’. Whitewashing one's violence, and coercing others into submission. It will never not be this way. Frankly, if anything, what makes the west’s hypocrisy so intolerable is that it applies a ‘language of caring’ far too much, in a context in which is cannot apply without unilateral disarmament. The closest a regime can come to speaking about honestly caring about its citizens is Singapore. Because it’s the most open and honest about its intention to coerce, it can afford to honestly have a vision for societal health—strict as it may be.
> But I think the West has been severely blindsided recently. It looked 5 years ago like global free market neoliberalism was a done deal. They/we took our eye off the ball. Suddenly the Chinese and Russians are on us and this is what's causing the current upheaval.
While I do agree the Russians and the Chinese are in the ascendant, I'm more partial to the view that the West is undergoing a quite intentional controlled demolition, less than that it's been blindsided.
The sheer absurdity of the events occurring is hardly accidental, but more of an ongoing humiliation ritual. Moreover, the same transitions are occurring in lockstep—sometimes even more harshly—in Russia and China, who are said to have outmaneuvered the west. I think our shared idea that the empire never died aligns better with the conclusion of a forced transition, and a global one at that, than that the west was blindsided.
By the way, if you do reply, please @ tag me in as I didn't see your last reply.
@ELISCHIFF yeah, we will see how it all develops, for sure. And I think the elephant in the room is widespread decentralisation, which advancing tech offers. In the background, I think all the planet's main power structures are fighting because the spectre of widespread decentralisation is just sitting there. They are looking for ways to control it!
Then you have a basic fissure within the West, with the EU and the Dems and some of the UK establishment on one side, and the UK right and US dollar hegemons on the other.
On top of that you have Ukraine, which for me indicates the sheer level of delusion that the West had fallen into. It's no secret that Washington and Whitehall were celebrating Putin's invasion, barely capable of containing their excitement that the Russians had finally fallen into the trap NATO had been baiting for them for since 2008. Like apparently no one in the whole of the Western powerbase had taken into account the gradual shift in the relative capacity to project military power in the years from 08 to 22. In 08, NATO would have walked it. But by 22, the trap was actually the other way around. Meaning Putin could invade, win and claim he was just protecting himself from NATO aggression.
Even me, a simple therapist living in bloody Turkey, could see that the Ukrainians were clearly in severe trouble in this one. It was plain apparent even to the Ukrainians who were trying to negotiate a settlement with Erd as the broker. But the West media machine girded its loins and went into overdrive, not realising that it doesn't matter if 800m Westerners believe something. It makes no difference on the ground. Only with the Vilnius NATO summit earlier this month did I see any evidence that the Americans were finally getting a grip and starting to come to terms with reality.
Working for years in the field of body-based therapy and Reichian Character Structure gives me insights into how much power to create change the semantic mind actually has, as opposed to how much power it thinks it has.
> And I think the elephant in the room is widespread decentralisation, which advancing tech offers... They are looking for ways to control it!
Very true, agreed.
Re: Ukraine, I haven't kept abreast of it all, but it does look to be a hotbed of corruption. I trust your analysis.
> not realising that it doesn't matter if 800m Westerners believe something
Made me laugh
> Working for years in the field of body-based therapy and Reichian Character Structure gives me insights into how much power to create change the semantic mind actually has, as opposed to how much power it thinks it has.
This is true, and it's a very insightful thing on a personal level. But I think the premise that the west is in controlled demolition takes away from the theory that it's incompetence/hubris that's causing these developments.
Delighted to read this! I have written a great deal about the Roman Empire which never died.
Please see: https://francesleader.substack.com/p/who-rules-the-world
and : https://francesleader.substack.com/p/what-does-the-rule-of-law-mean
and this one for their future plans: https://francesleader.substack.com/p/the-mother-of-all-false-flag-events
Yeah. Though I figure the Empire is held in place, on a deeper level, because it represents the most likely option to get humans to wake up, instead of just lazing around seeking comfort.
I put this out recently to Richard Poe. He banned me from following him!
https://devaraj2.substack.com/p/what-have-the-illuminati-ever-done
I don't know Richard Poe. Sounds like I am blessed by that!
I don't know what you mean by 'the Empire is held in place, on a deeper level, because it represents the most likely option to get humans to wake up'
Humans are not asleep.
We are controlled via laws, education and religion, all of which originate in Rome.
The modern descendants of the Roman Senate are now known as the Black Nobility and if ANYONE is 'just lazing around seeking comfort' it has been THEM since they established Venice in the mosquito infested swamps of northern Italy.
It would appear that you did not read the articles I linked above before replying to me. Had you done so, we might be having a different conversation.
I skimmed one of the articles you wrote. It didn't look to me like it would pass the 5 point sniff test I put out in the article on the Illuminati I linked you to.
I maintain that there is a highly complex relationship between humans and the means through which we have evolved from other primates. We absolutely need huge ongoing adaptive pressure to transcend our origins and if the black nobility provide that, well, it's not great but how else to do it?
I've been 20 years in the heavy end of the therapy scene. Humans will only face themselves under extreme internal and external pressure.
Eek! You believe we evolved from primates? OK. That is quite an assumption with no evidence to support it.... where are the skulls showing the long slow changes which would have been necessary?
You further assume that we need 'huge ongoing adaptive pressure to transcend our origins' - WHAT?? We have (as a species) adapted to survive through multiple climate changes over many millions of years. Some of us are still driven to re-develop our lost skills, such as telepathy and manifestation.
The Black Nobility limits our development and punishes anyone who displayed the lost skills - just as it always did from the Roman Empire onwards. Witch-burnings, Inquisitions etc.
Your form of 'therapy' sounds brutal to me, a retired Barefoot Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine.
If you feel a need for 'extreme internal and external pressure' to seed a change in a client. Then, man, you were doing it all wrong for those 20 years!
PS
Your 'sniff test' is pants! lmfao!
It leads you to dismiss facts that do not fit YOUR paradigm rather than act as a way to detect irrational theorising. I give it zero credibility, sorry.
Well, I'd actually agree that we were more likely seeded from apes, by external means, than our frontal lobes developed just through adaptive pressure. That's seems more likely to me.
But you still need a lot of pressure to get us to where we are now. A few climate changes ain't gonna cut it.
That's why I say you have to give the dragon of Rev 12 his due.
And a bit of dialoguing seems to have woken you up a little. Maybe you'll now move on from rehashing Carroll Quigley like every other tinfoil hat wearing authority tripper in town! Time in the panopticon can actually be insightful.
Are you aware of your glaring arrogance? Needs attention.
Yes! I have been musing just recently that accepting we aren't going to get and can't expect any protection, justice, care, or reward from the system is in a way, ironically, relaxing and allows us to navigate it better.
Also, Frances Leader on substack writes about how the Roman Empire literally did not end - some very interesting and thought provoking reads..
Thanks for inviting me to comment here. As you can see this particular person is deceptive and controlling. He created this post (and others he has written) purely to TRAP those of us who are willing to share our work.
Disgraceful and ignorant behaviour.
I try to treat all those who comment the same. Maybe I fail sometimes but I try. If you resort to insults with me, I usually push back at what I consider to be a similar level. Or just ignore if I think it's not worth it.
The way I see it, if someone truly stands in a narrative then they can easily withstand a bit of pounding. If the narrative is merely a vehicle for self-avoidance, then in my experience, it won't stand up for long under pressure. All the submerged feelings the narrative is holding down start to surface. The trick, I think, is not relying on narratives to feel okay, not needing someone else to believe what you think. I am still on this journey.
You are employing bait and switch techniques. YOU INSULTED ME and you know it,
Well, you were taking the piss out of my therapist stuff, so I took the piss out of you being a conspiracy theorist. I don't really see the issue TBH.
And TBH you are actually proving to me the point I originally made - that humans need colossal ongoing adaptive pressure to develop. We need massive challenge, otherwise we will simply take the path of least resistance. Be that eating doritos rather than feeling. Or trying to convince others that one's pet theory of how-the-world-is is actually correct, rather than deal with submerged issues around authority and hierarchies.
Like I'm not denying your black nobility exist. I'm saying they're needed.
lol - we can all read back and see how you operate. You insulted me by merely 'skimming' one of my articles and then proceeding to assume you knew my sources. I have never read Quigley, btw.
Then you set about assuming that your 'therapy' could help me away from facts which you dismiss as 'conspiracy theories'.
You are the one who should easily withstand a bit of pounding.... but you can't.
You are a charlatan, a fraud and dangerous.
I wasn't using "skimming" as an insult. Sorry if it came off this way. Just that there's a shit ton of conspiracy stuff out there and most is delusional imo. I mean, it is the same tired old narrative devices over and over (and over) again. And so I just can't spend my days reading this stuff. If you don't visibly demonstrate objectivity early on, if you're just using confirmation bias, retrofitting evidence, or selecting for single-agent causation over other explanations, then I'm just not going to bother.
Machiavelli told the whole story. Nothing has changed in 500 years. We still have the same types of rulers, performing the same tricks that Mach described. Occasionally we get a sane ruler, and we can be happy until the sane ruler is killed by the normal ones.